HS Baseball Tonight 4/23/2010 Finals

Posted by Andy Durham on April 23, 2010 at 9:47 pm under High School | 28 Comments to Read

North Forsyth 0


WS Parkland 3


Western Guilford 16
Smith 1

WP:Nino Marrero

Grimsley 7
Page 5

8 Innings
WP:Tucker Rogers
Page now(12-9) overall…..

Southwest Guilford 4
East Forsyth 3

SWG now (18-4/7-3) overall……
East Forsyth(14-5/7-2)

Rockingham County 2
Northern Guilford 1

*****RC wins with walk off single by Eric Kennedy…Northern Guilford now (12-8/9-3)*****

Glenn 17
High Point Central 4

6 Innings
Glenn(6-3) conference….HPC(0-10)

  • baseball2010 said,

    RC 2 NG 1
    RC wins with walk off single by Eric Kennedy

  • mike c said,

    Southwest looked good tonight. They’re coming together at the right time. Getting more consistent at the plate throughout the lineup. Good game by both teams.

  • ad4deacs said,

    Congrats to the Whirlies. Big boo hiss to Page for putting Sawyer Highfill on base twice 🙂

  • 77 Hornet said,

    Western Guilford 16
    Smith 1
    WP Nino Marrero

  • justafan said,

    I heard that Dudley and Northeast play today. If so does anyone know what time

  • pirate fan said,

    Bottom of 7 base running blunders cost pirates chance to win it. Runners on 2nd and 3rd no outs, ball hit to SS, runner on 2nd tries to advance and gets out in run down. eventually, another runner at 1b who plated the tying run, gets picked making a late break for 2nd.

    overall a good game by both teams.

  • clark said,

    The NE Rams beat the Dudley Panthers 8-11 for the first time in 4 years. The Rams are now “16-3”

    WP: Jaylin Davis
    SV: Luis Paula

    *HRs for the RAMS by Johnny Brown Jr, Luis Paula, and Jacob McCain

    ** next game will be @ Asheboro on Tues

  • Health Concern said,

    Page-Grimsley was a very good game but it was disturbing to see the Page coach leave the starting pitcher in the game way too long. The kid threw to the first batter in the 8th inning before he was finally pulled after giving up a lead-off double. The boy pitched a good game but it was too many pitches for a young teenage arm. Evidently the coach does not keep track of pitch counts or just doesn’t care about his players future health.

    This is the third Page game I have seen and the starting pitchers have been left in for the entire game each time. This is not coaching…it is the lack of coaching.

  • been there, done that said,

    If this is true don’t for a minute think the Page coach is by himself. I have met Coach Hardin and he is an experienced coach. I’ve heard many other coaches speak very well of ‘Tank”. A good friend of mine and someone I assisted coached underneath him for years. Nothing but praise for him as a coach and educator. He may have been out of pitching but still no excuse. Although we don’t know how many pitches he threw or how much he has pitched recently. We would need to know the whole story.

    Many HS coaches do this. Sometimes in games that are out of hand or non-conference. For the last 5 years since I moved here I have seen kids pitch way too far in games. Seen kids start out the year untouchable throwing 88-90 and 3 months later are topping out at 82, getting hit hard and talking about their arm being sore. I’ve seen kids pitch many games and throw 120-140 pitches. Some of the supposedly “guru coaches” in the area will pitch kids well over 100 pitches. And they always have an excuse; “his velo was still strong, he was throwing strikes, hasn’t pitched in a while, said he felt fine, yada, yada, yada. the eason is they want to win and either don’t have anyone else or don’t trust anyone else out there in the situation.

    It may come down to imposing a pitch count on kids like they do in Little League. There was an injury locally just recently with a catcher/pitcher. Just in the last 2 weeks I’ve seen a kid pitch well over 100 pitches in 2 outings. Kid pitched great both times but he’s not that big. Can his body take throwing that many pitches over time? This kid is just one of many. Everyone is chasing the glory of winning today but when is it too much? And I also pitched in college a little and one of my direct reports pitched for 4 years in college. Seen my share of Tommy John surgeries and rotator cuff surgeries.

    Not only am I in favor of a pitch count but I expect momentum to build for going back to wooden bats.

  • pirate fan said,

    how many pitches should HS pitcher throw before he is pulled?

  • topfin29 said,

    88-90 mph? Haven’t seen anything close to that.

  • mike c said,

    Kid at SWG was in that range last year. Hudgens has been mid to upper this year. I haven’t seen that this year either but saw a bunch of it last year. Mitchell, McBride, Tuttle, Ogburn. Not a lot of dominant pitching this year on a local and state level.

    Adam Griffin, Hobbs Johnson and Benton Moss get it up there pretty good.

  • kirk said,

    I think it is not as simple as restricting pitch count, although that is a good start. But I think you have to look at # of days of rest, what position kids play when not pitching, how much they throw on off days and such. Restricting pitch counts on the day they pitch addresses that day. What about the other days?

  • to health concern said,

    what kind of comment was that on pitch count? who are you to sit up in the stands and critque some body . do you know the coach from page? i bet you he knows more than you. since you think that coach doesnt do a pitch count why dont you take your behind down there and ask him , since you are so overly concerned about what he does with his players. it kills me to read some of the crap thats said about coaches in gcs . you hide behind this site and critique coaches as if you know more than they do. if you know so much why dont some of you people apply for a job and we can see how you go about coaching a team. the majority of the coaches in gc manage the game really well. if they dont have the quality players you play the hand your dealt. its called teaching, do you think for a minute the coach at page would put his players in a health situation regarding his arm. give me a freaking break , i am probably sure he asked him how you feel , thats normal and as always a kid might say i feel good. but then there is a but , if he gets in trouble or struggles with a batter you take him out. sometimes kids compete so much they dont want to come out even if they are hurting. but you put them on a short leash. so from me to you if you going to talk know what you are talking about before you open your mouth or better yet write something thats not true. i dont see nolan ryans or tom glavines, or any pitchers that throws 85 plus miles an hour on any high school rosters around here, if there are they are one of the few. so enjoy the game if your son plays cheer for him or her other wise leave the coaching to the coaches. be a fan and be a parent. thats all you have to do.

  • pirate fan said,

    i think health concern brings up a topic that needs to be addressed. dont shoot the messenger.

    i think we all have seen coaches who allow the pitcher to throw too many pitches because there is no depth behind your # 1 or #2 pitcher.

    coach hardin seems like an excellent coach and I am sure he knows what he is doing. however, the pressure to win, especially against your biggest rival, might be tempting to leave a pitcher in an inning longer than he should. Not saying he did or didnt just that its tempting to.

  • pat said,

    George Carter, Keaton Haack, and Luis Paula have all been clocked at 88 or better this year.

  • justafan said,

    What does Philips at norteast throw it has to be in the upper 80’s

  • to health concern said,

    pirate fan are you really a pirate fan? or do you have a son that plays at page. sounds like you have a son that plays over there. so really what are you trying to say? carter , haack , paula , clocked at 88 all night or for 1 or 2 innings. slow gun or fast gun. you do know the difference right. but getting back to the pirate fan what you are saying is negative on the coach at page . as i stated before you must have a son over there. did he come home and tell you his arm was hurting because he threw 70-75 pitches? i bet you when they go play travel ball they throw the hold game but no one says a word . what a double standard. give the pirates a break and dont come to any more of their games or leave your selfish comments to some one who cares.

  • mike c said,

    Most travel coaches keep a better track of pitch counts than HS coaches. And parents are quick to approach a showcase coach about coming out while almost no one approaches their HS coach.

    I’ve seen all 3 above and I find it hard that they all hit 88. They weren’t close when I saw them. I want to know where they pitch, not what they hit. And I do realize the difference between different radar guns. JUGS is worth about 2 mph.

    Hardin is a good man. We don’t know the whole story here.

  • Eddie Willis said,

    Their arms hurt when they are getting hit—when they are throwing strikes and getting people out, their arms are great!!! hve you ever coached young hs age pitchers? i do agree that 130 pitches is too many. He’s probably not really a pitcher if he throws that many pitches anyway.

  • pirate fan said,

    to TCH, I have said Page coach is an excellent coach. sorry you have such thin skin you cant or refuse to discuss whether a coach will use a pitcher too long. I never said Page coach did. i just said the possibility is always there when you play a big game and depth is limited. I’ve seen this my whole life, through LL, travel ball, and HS ball. Dont tell me it dont exist.

    More times than not, I have seen a kid stay in too long(especially the smaller ones) and arm fatigue sets in, velo drops, curve ball dont have the same bite, other teams hitters get timing down, and pitcher starts to get roughed up a bit. How many runs did GHS score in the 6th, 7th, & 8th?

  • Pitch Count said,

    Most showcase coaches are not concerned about the same thing as most high school coaches.

    Most high school coaches are concerned about winning and have political issues to manage, most showcase coaches have an agenda to promote all their kids which means they spread PT and don’t ride their horses all weekend.

    Granted most showcase teams carry numerous arms, while most HS teams do not have access to that many varsity arms. Having said that, the HS coach also has winning and politics to consider so they don’t grab that sophmore who can help build the arms base.

  • to health concern said,

    pirate fan i dont know how many they scored in the 6th , 7th , 8th, . does it really matter. i was not there. i think i saw the score was 7-5 . does that sound like a bad pitched game? reading your mesaage up top you sound as if you are a pitching coach. the last i checked all of those things happen when you get tired and they happen when you are not tired. and i can go out on the line and say that coach at page will never let a kid stay in and pitch with out knowing if the kid is up in pitch count. so that possibility with the coach from page is an after thought. he is to in tune with the game and knows the game way to well to have that possibility in him. and i can say that about the coaches from southeast , grimsley, dudley, western guilford, ragsdale and if i left out some one sorry. all of those coaches played in college and know the game well. here is where you need to take your argument , go to the middle schools and see some of those coaches coach, with the exception of a few ,those coaches dont have a clue about baseball. and if i stepped on some toes so be it . but the middle schools need the most work out of all. you talking about hs coaches that were good in college played at a high level and now you saying they dont know what they doing. give me a break all of those coaches can coach and they know the game. the question is do you? as eddie willis said when you doing good everything is fine when you getting killed on the mound your arm hurt , i wonder could that some one be your son? and he is also right that if the kid does throw 130 pitches his neck is hurting from all those hits he has to look at and then the coach should be fired for the kid throwing that many pitches. a kid at any of those schools i named will never throw that many pitches in a game. so thank you for the back up mr. eddie willis

  • Grey said,

    I think this is great thread, and something that needs to be discussed. THC, I understand you didn’t like the way a previous comment implied something about Coach Hardin at Page, and your viewpoint there is valid. However, I don’t agree that a parent just needs to sit back and enjoy the game. I will preface this by saying that I am not a baseball guy. My understanding is that most high school coaches are very knowledgeable, as are the travel coaches that my son has played with. However, as a parent, my responsibility is to my son…and if I see a coach that doesn’t have the best interest of my son in mind, then I will have no problem getting involved. If some people don’t like that, that is their opinion, but they don’t have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong. Yes, I have made an ass of myself by going into the dugout during a middle school game and requesting my son be taken out of the game (when doing well), pissing off the coach, as well as my son. But I have no problem being the bad guy in a situation when a 13 yr old gets into the nineties in a pitch count, while also being the primary catcher on his team. I didn’t make a fuss with the coach, no cross words were exchanged, and everything worked out fine. However, if I don’t do that, then I don’t think I am fulfilling my responsibility as a parent. For the record, I don’t have any illusions of my son having some grand future in the game, but I would like him to enjoy a high school career. Also, for the record, this situation has never arisen for us in a travel ball setting.

    I think Kirk’s comments are probably the most valid on this thread. Its not just pitch count, but how are they being utilized while they are not pitching…what is happening at practice…are they getting enough rest in between outings. Mike C, your point is well-taken…why is it that we are generally so quick to talk to a travel/showcase coach, but unwilling to make waves with a school coach? Maybe the relationship is different.

    Again, I think it’s a great thread and very worthwhile to get different viewpoints. The debates are being had from little league all the way up through the majors. SI.COM had an article on this subject yesterday, and I included some comments below. Sorry if I am so long-winded.

    Glenn Fleisig — the Ph.D. research director at the American Sports Medicine Institute, where he works alongside renowned orthopedic surgeon Dr. James Andrews — says pitchers never hurt themselves by throwing one too many pitch, even if it’s early in the season.
    “A big misconception, even among the pitchers who come here to see Dr. Andrews for surgery, is that they’ll say, ‘I felt something pop because it was a cold day’ or ‘It was April and I pitched too much’ or ‘I threw a curveball’ or whatever,” Fleisig says. “They report what they did on that last throw when they hurt their arm. They think that was the one pitch where they did too much, whether it was too many pitches that one game or it was too cold or too early, and that’s not true.”

    Fleisig says that only in instances of trauma, such as in a car accident or a hard football tackle, do ligaments or tendons snap cleanly. Pitchers, meanwhile, suffer microtears to the fibers of their ligaments and tendons each time they throw, which is why the four days in between starts are critical for repairing that small amount of damage. Pitchers develop elbow and shoulder problems when they exceed their capacity on the days they throw, without giving their arms proper rest. That begins a cycle in which each start simply worsens the pre-existing tears that never fully healed, and the pop pitchers eventually feel is merely the tear of the last remaining piece of ligament or tendon.
    “A pitcher’s injury always looks like it’s frayed,” Fleisig says. “That means you never got injured because you did something bad once. You have to view someone’s arm health not as what you do on the day [of your start] but what you do on your five-day cycle.”

  • to health concern said,

    thank you mr.grey for your imput on the this debate. but let me advise you as your son gets older try to stay out of dug outs when coaches are trying to coach. thats a line you should never cross if you have something to say there is a time and place for everything. that doesnt look good for you or your son . remember your son name gets to a place or school before he does. and i know some coaches who have had this problem in the pass will let him try out but at the end of try outs they are cut. no matter how good they are. and thats a prime example of a kid not playing hs baseball because their parents know more than the coach. now if you played and you were good then i can respect that but if you just played in hs and said i had scholarship here or could have got drafted and they wanted me that doesnt count for nothing. and one more thing i been schooled by life hard knocks and i know who dr james andrews is , a couple of my personal friends were operated on by him . he is a birmingham guy. know a lot about him and not just from tv or just talk. i know this game very , very well and GOD BLESSED me with the talent to play that sport at the highest level so dont think for a minute i dont know what i am talking about. good luck to you and your son ,and do every one a favor stay out of dug outs. i am sorry one last thing never had that problem in travel ball ,you probably havent , if you paid me the money some of you are paying for travel ball i wouldnt worry either. but thats travel ball not hs. remember travel ball is like this you got to pay to play. and every kid is not a super star. good day

  • Health Concern said,

    To: To Health Concern…listening to you ramble is like finger nails across a chalk board. Stick to the subject at hand. This is not an outlet to discuss you…more you…and even more you. No one cares who you know, who you have heard of, or who you have googled.

    The topic was how to eliminate over pitching these young athletes and there have been some good points presented. I have enjoyed reading the ideas and opinions with the exception of your own personal walk down memory lane.

    God blessed me with the ability to recognize BS at the highest level!!

  • Grey said,

    THC, thanks for your advice, your point is well taken. You obviously have experience, and I appreciate you sharing. Just to clarify, as I said earlier I am not a baseball guy, and would never make a habit of going into a dugout to tell a coach what to do. However, I feel confident in my actions in that one particular instance.

    The experience with travel baseball my son has had is really not about money, but more about finding coaches that are interested in developing players…similar to what you and some others refer to in your above comments. Ultimately, the issue is how to avoid injuries and stress on young players’ bodies. My understanding is that our area is fortunate enough to have many high school programs with experienced coaches that have the kid’s development and best interests at heart…which is great. The ideas of pitch counts, off-day activities, and other positions played are all factored into the equation by these experienced guys.

    Again, thanks for your well wishes, and your viewpoint…and good luck to you, as well.

  • to health concern said,

    health concern lets talk about your son since this is what its all about. you are upset because your son threw a lot of pitches. so you are blaming the coaches. you say there should be a pitch count. you also say that the coach should know when a pitcher is approaching a certain pitch count. you also state you are trying to find a way to over limit the pitching of young pitchers (probably your son) so that they want heart their arms. now correct me if i am wrong mr. eddie willis says it best”your arm hurts when you getting hit when you are throwing strikes and getting people out your arm doesnt hurt” . wow so tell me health concern which one is your son? it doesnt matter if a kid throws 60-70 pitches his arm can hurt he can throw 100 and his arm can feel fine. is there a certain amount of pitches that any pitcher can throw before they say my arm hurts? i dont think so because either it hurts or it doesnt. but a good coach knows when and how far to go with their pitcher even when his player says he is fine and can go on. so if i am so full of you know what why dont you have the answers to your son problems? you ever thought that maybe he isnt that good and his pitch count really , really dosnt matter? so as a unhappy parent you want to blame somebody , and that person is his coach. lets face it bottom line is they have it or they dont . which one is your son ? sooner or later you will figure it out that they are not as good as you would like for them to be. so lets go to college and get a good education and get a great job because a baseball future is not going to happen. so my trip down memory lane tells me that reading your post is that your son or whomever you are talking about is really not that good because if they were mr. health concern you wouldnt be on here crying and whining about a pitch count. are you serious we are talking about a pitch count. hey just throw the dang ball if they hit it they hit it , if not then every one is ok. have a good day and when your son or whomever pitch again you keep up with the pitches and when they reach that pitch count run down and yell at the coach he is at 60 pitches his arm is hurting take him out. pitch count are you serious? i hope YOU get the point