Should we expand the TIMCO Tournament Field?

Posted by Andy Durham on December 31, 2012 at 12:55 pm under High School | 18 Comments to Read

Should we expand the TIMCO Tournament Field?

We ask this same question every year and every year, we get plenty of readers that want to see other teams brought into the tournament…

There are lots of different ways to look at this….

I for one say, we should not look at bringing in other teams from out of town or outside of our area….

Why have our local schools sell tickets and then give part of the proceeds from the ticket sales to some school from out of town???

If you expand the field you have to keep in mind that by doing this, you are going to cut down on the amount of money that is paid to the participating schools….Does that make fiscal sense???

By doubling the field you could bring in all 15 of the county schools and also have Greensboro Day in the field and that would give you a full 16-team field….

You need to try and have the same boys and girls teams in the field to help balance out the payout that the schools receive…Back in the day they tried mixing and matching schools with some boys teams from one school and some girls teams from others and that did not really fly well at all….

Are we totally sure that all of the Guilford County Schools are going to want to participate???

Does Dudley want back in and once a school gets back in the field, are they willing to stay in and not go for another out-of-town tournament in the future???

Do the teams that already have their own Christmas Tournaments want to leave/give those up and come on board with the TIMCO??? Southwest Guilford has their own tournament now and they seem to be doing well and having success with it….Eastern Guilford has their own tournament and it looks/appears to being doing well for Eastern and the teams that they bring in….

Southwest, Southeast, Eastern, Western, Dudley, even Wesleyan back when Nathan Jamieson was there, have all been in the tournament before and decided to step away for some reason or another….Many times the schools had strong boys programs and their girls teams were a bit off, or the girls were in a better position than the boys….

I may be off base, but Southern Guilford, High Point Central and High Point Andrews are the only Guilford County teams to have never been involved in the TIMCO Tournament and Andrews may have been close, but not sure they were in….

For several early years the Greensboro Day School girls were not in, because their ladies were not strong enough to compete…Now they are doing fine and are very competitive….

If you were to take Greensboro Day out of the tourney, as some have suggested you would lose tons of money and that is what the tournament is all about, raising money for the schools….When they were first allowed to come into the tournament it was the best thing to ever happen to the tournament, cause those GDS people get out and sell tickets and they usually sell out their allotment every year before the tournament begins….Other teams may have to turn some tickets back in, but Greensboro Day will not, they will sell all of their tickets and they are not only making money for their school, they are making money for all the other schools as well…

There is no way you take Greensboro Day out of the tournament, unless they were to decide to leave on their own and I don’t see that happening, the TIMCO Tournament means so much to Bengals and their teams/school and we need them to help make this tournament a success at the gate….

If you want to get GDS, next year should be your chance….They have five starting seniors in Dillard, Lucas, Terry, Hairston and Goldston….You want to the top spot in the tourney, next year ought to be your year and the chase will sell seats….

Like we were saying earlier we could get all of the Guilford County teams in there and with those 15, you then add in Greensboro Day and you have a 16-team field….Say some of the Guilford County teams don’t want in and they opt to stay at their own tournaments, ala Southwest Guilford and Eastern Guilford…Maybe some schools feel they have a better chance to win their own hosted events, at their own school….SWG boys and girls both won the Sheetz Tournaments this year and the Eastern girls won their Holiday Tournament….

Say if EG or SWG did not want in and then that would open up foreseeably two more spots and do you add a High Point Christian and a New Hope Christian since there has been talks of them wanting in???

If you add the HPCA boys, what do you about the girls slot….The HPCA girls are about where the Greensboro Days girls were say 5-7 years ago…Not sure it would flow…With New Hope Christian, do we know they would be in for the long haul and are they on the map for the long haul….Can’t really base a team’s strength on what they are doing today…Have to show us a long-term commitment and if you were to bring in more teams they would have to be in for the long haul….There was talk of bringing in Oak Ridge Military Academy a couple of years ago based on the program that they were building, but look where they are today, and where are they today???

Programs have to get building and establish some true footing and that takes a few years…You can’t bring a program in because they are looking great one year and they say they will sell all of these tickets and fill up seats and their fans will turn out in droves just to see them play…

This all takes us back to original formula…They are right at capacity or close to selling the Special Events Center out now and if you looked around, the place was packed last Friday night and for some of the early games the seats were sold, fans just chose not to to come out, until the Finals were in play….

Why do you add teams when you are already selling the place out and the distribution of your funds is going evenly to the schools and they are real happy about the money that they get back. to help their athletic departments???

Somebody is going to have to show us a plan that would include an expanded field and the schools still get what they are taking home today…..Can the schools that are not in the current field bring on more sponsors that will stick around and add to the payout that the schools will receive???

Got to see some real good numbers before they can ever think about moving the tournament back into the big building(The Greensboro Coliseum)….

More schools right now means less money back to the schools that are regulars in the tournament…..That is why the tournament was created to return money to the high schools….

The current field is working and if somebody decides to drop out, there will be open space and once a team is firmly entrenched in the field, I would suggest not going anywhere….The grass or money is not always greener on the other side…..

You may feel that you have a team that can take over this field and you would be dominant, you may have to do as Southwest Guilford and Eastern Guilford did and start your own tournament and prove it that way….Some Guilford County teams may not want to be in the tournament because they feel like they are playing each other enough times already…Others may feel that they can compete one year, but that they may not be as strong the next…..

The way the field is now and the way the money is going back to the schools, I don’t know how you can improve upon that…Again, you could expand the field and give more Guilford County Schools the chance to play, but you are taking money away from the Athletic Directors budgets when you do that…..

I say leave it the same until somebody comes up with a sure-fire way to make the TIMCO Tournament better and I haven’t seen that plan….Anybody got that plan???

Would like to see it…..

And no need to go slapping our coaches or players around….That does not make good sense and it won’t fly here…The current coaches and their players are what makes this tournament work and with their hard work, the seats are filled on Championship Night and the money is going back to the schools…….

+++++Don’t know how I could have covered this in any more detail, but if you can show me some things that I have left out, then I would like to see them…..+++++


  • Falcon1 said,

    I think it depends on what the sponsors are wanting to get out of it. If you are trying to put together a Christmas tournament that features the top 10 teams in the area for boys and girls they may be able to do that. If they just want local Guilford County and private schools then leave it the way it is. Christmas tournaments allow teams to continue playing during the their break. It is also a good money maker if you get the fans to show up. I would bet the Newbridge Tournament did well on the profit side. I was disappointed in the fan turn out for SEG, heck our own cheerleaders did not show up. I say leave it the way it is, everyone seems pretty happy with it.

  • what said,

    We keep saying or hearing that the money wouldn’t be split equally. Do you think that it’s fair to the other 8 GCS public school who don’t get a chance to sell tickets to make the $10,000 pay out(if you sale all your tickets) for tournament participants. It’s never going to be a tournament to show case the best talent in GCS. So why do the sponsors, news papers and media proclaim the winners as city champs. Please, someone tell me when is the last time”Powerhouse Page” saturdays paper, beat Dudley girls. Since they won the lil 4 or TIMCO they are called city champs, but have only finished 3rd, 3rd and 2nd in Metro conference play…..no conference or tournament championships. Do you think that it’s fair that on the Boys side….Reggie Dillard was named MVP in his 5th appearance in the tournament. People only see the good of this tournament, but a lot of negative comes to light.

  • Andy Durham said,

    Money would still be split evenly, but it would split many more ways, so therefore less profits if you add teams….

    Team that were in should have stayed in and there’s where so of the issues come up….Teams dropped out and now some of them want back in…..

    Ragsdale was out at one time and got back in…Smith almost got dropped about three years ago when Northern came in, but Dudley dropped out and that allowed Smith to stay in….

    Smith is an original member, but their ticket sales and attendance were off and that is why they were a threat to be dropped out and they were a charter member….Smith, Dudley, Grimsley and Page in the original ‘Little Four’…..

    Like we said earlier, Southwest was in, Southeast was in, Western was in at one time and won 2 or three girls titles, but talent levels drop off and teams decide to drop out an go someplace else and then when their talent level picks back up, they want back in and you can’t run a tourney like that….All in or not in…..

    The Greensboro Sports Council looks at ideas every year and I’m sure some of their people will be looking at the ideas we are mentioning here, so feel free to add to conversation with more realistic suggestions……

    Good topic to start a Holiday Week….

    Nobody else is doing any talking today, let’s do some more here at the sports site…..

  • Andy Durham said,

    Who do you want to see added to the field and what matchups are you hungry for???

  • no way said,

    Andy……I am a former Coach of one of the teams you mentioned above that as you say dropped out. No school wants to drop out of this tournament, you are kicked out. If you have a boys or girls program that is strong and a good fan base you are allowed to stay in the tournament…..we had a solid program for years (winning record) but our boys program can’t get it right, so we were dropped as a school that was invited…..it’s not the talent that you can showcase but the amount of tickets your school can sale. Just look at the records of the girls programs who participated this year…..terrible or horrible. If it was based on talent, we would be invited every year…..we have a solid girls program and our record would put us in the top 4 over the last 15 years…..still we go uninvited…..we play where we are invited and don’t mind competition or traveling…..TIMCO….those who have (invited) those who don’t (uninvited)…..has nothing to do with the talent of the kids…..

  • Ballr said,

    If you want a true city champion on the girls and boys…..you seed them 1-16 based on the records of teams on December 10th and strength of schedule (not playing NEG Girls 3 times)…..not hey Coach how do you think you’re going to be this year. You would have to handicap GDS with the August 1st rule for age or not allow someone to play in 5 of this tournaments. I like to see championships won out on the courts……Tell each AD or coach to schedule 20 games and let the other 4 be played at the TIMCO with Round 1 serving as an endowment game. So everyone gets their 24 games……and if

  • Andy Durham said,

    Yes it does have everything to do with the number of tickets that you can sell, but there have been years in the past where a boys team was in but there girls team was not because they could not compete at a somewhat competitive level….

    That was the case with Greensboro Day when they first came in, their girls team was not inand when Wesleyan played here for a year or two, their girls team was not in, but now it is the case where the Tournament does like to keep schools together with both boys and girls teams there…..

    There have been years where boys were there and girls were not and visa versa….

    Northeast Guilford has reached that hour of decision with their girls team if the Greensboro Sports Council wanted to break up the girls field this would be a case worth studying…..The NEG girls are not competitive with the rest of the field year-in year-out right now…..Way off the mark over the past three years……

    Soon this will all be a mute point for all of us here, since come Friday night, it is Metro, Piedmont Triad, Mid-State 3-A and Mid-Piedmont 3-A time to rumble….

    Especially Metro 4-A….But until then, the TIMCO is still the ‘Hot Button’….

    Metro 4-A girls is gonna be a true Michael Buffer moment this year…..”Let’s Get Ready to Metro”…..We will say that since he(Buffer) has Rumble patented……

  • Ballr said,

    Have you seen the Piedmont Triad and Mid-Piedmont girls conference………..Metro looks very very strong

  • it's hard to say said,

    These are great questions Andy. I do think it should be expanded. However, if a school wants the money their fans should come out and support. It is their kids that would benefit. I do think the seeding should be changed. Strength of schedule should be considered. Everyone agrees that Page had an easy road on the girls side and they have played really weak teams to garner a perfect record. I hear so much about Mr. Johnson at GDS about playing weak non-conference teams…Page does the same thing but they can’t close out the Metro. I do have a question..How can a player/coach win conference player/coach of the year and their team doesn’t win their conference but the young ladies from Smith clearly were the better players this tournament but they couldn’t win TIMCO MVP? Is that a rule for TIMCO that MVP must come from winning team? If not someone got robbed this year like Shaylen Burnett did last year for the Metro. Just curious.

  • change the seeding process said,

    If you bring in more teams, then you can bring in more sponsors (ie more funding to cover added teams. Each school must commit to sell a specific number of tickets (just like today). Just selling 300 tickets per school would produce at least $2000 of each schools profit. The seeding could be produced by have play in games 2 weeks prior to the tournament. Once the tournament begins you will either stay in the winners championship bracket or fall back into a losers bracket. Each bracket would have its own champ down to say 4th place. No matter what each school can walk away with some type of hardware for their division.

  • New Vendor Process said,

    Change the whole vendor process within the game area. Allow vendors to bid on the tournament to allow more clothing, food options, and tech options for purchase. Also as a way to bring in more sponsors, allow sponsoring companies to set up booth spaces to solicit for sale or promotion their services or products (similar to business a showcase). These changes would bring in the added funds needed to keep the school payouts high.

  • Vincent Hunter said,

    All Guilford County Schools should be invited.

  • Andy Durham said,

    It’s going to be hard to be named the MVP of any tournament unless you are on the winning team…At least that has been my experience from what I have seen over the years…..

    I’m sure there have been exceptions, but I would like to hear about a few of them…

  • ballin said,

    I think all GCS should be invited. Andy what happen to the top performers for the tournament?

  • Andy Durham said,

    Just posted a full list of all the top performers from the tournaments and the area games and it came down at 8:52pm and near the top of our home page here at the site…Top performers/high scorers from the games….

  • hoops123 said,

    The school that needs to be included is New Garden Friends School. The Bears are an up and coming program with a strong following. They are only going to get better and better.

    Hoops123

  • Haha said,

    Please, New Garden Friend…….they are listing 4 scrimmage win on there record…..how do you list 4 victories on 11/17 as regular season wins…….please update your max prep record…….scrimmages

  • hoops123 said,

    Again, New Garden Friends School really needs to be included. Within a very short time period they will become a very strong program both Athletically and Academically. They are aftaid to play no one and therre is a lot of interest from local families.

    To the person who complained, check back here in 1-2 years.

    hoops123