The “Dudley Decision”:Points to look at as the NCHSAA Makes Final Dudley Decision Today(Deliberations have begun)

Posted by Andy Durham on November 13, 2014 at 10:19 am under High School | 27 Comments to Read

*****The NCHSAA Board has heard the second appeal and now the Board is deliberating(11:05am)….Per Patrick Wright(WFMY NEWS 2)*****

Good chance to look all of this over as we await the Final Word from the NCHSAA….
(Points compiled by our Research Committee and word today is no matter what happens, this will be the final Dudley appeal.)

* NCHSAA rules only allow players to participate in the JV and varsity games, during the same week, under the 8 quarter rule. Participation is defined as dressing out for the game.

* Under the 8 quarter rule, freshman and sophomores can participate in the JV and the varsity game during the same week, as long as they have PLAYED in less than 8 quarters of varsity games during that year.

* Juniors are allowed to play JV or varsity, but they can’t play both during the same week. They are not eligible to use the 8 quarter rule.

* Dudley had 4 juniors that played in the JV game on Thursday night and dressed for the varsity game on Friday night – one of the players played 2 snaps. Because the 4 players are juniors and they participated in JV that week, they were ineligible to participate (i.e. dress) in the varsity game Friday.

* The penalty for having ineligible players is a fine and forfeiture of the game where ineligible players participated.

* Dudley self-reported using ineligible players, after the brackets were finalized. (SE may have told Dudley about it, but Dudley agreed because they self-reported the players as ineligible.)

* Under the NCHSAA rules, any forfeit that occurs after the brackets have been finalized and impacts the team’s record and seed, will result in the team being removed from the playoffs.

*****Word from News and Record’s Joe Sirera was saying that Dudley principal Jesse Pratt has said that if today’s appeal is rejected, then Dudley will not pursue further legal remedies.*****


  • NCCA said,

    “Under the NCHSAA rules, any forfeit that occurs after the brackets have been finalized and impacts the team’s record and seed, will result in the team being removed from the playoffs”. This rule was proposed and voted on by the North Carolina Coaches Association and subsequently adopted and voted in by the NCHSAA. This is a rule that North Carolina coaches wanted and the NCHSAA agreed. Most all high school coaches are members on the NCCA.

  • HS FB FAN said,

    I WAS PRETTY HARSH ON SEG WHEN THE INITIAL STATEMENTS FIRST CAME OUT, IT WAS REPORTED THAT SEG TURNED THEM IN, BUT AFTER ALL THAT’S COMEOUT SINCE IT SEEMED DUDLEY TURNED THEIR ONSELF IN. THIS CREATED A HOSTILE SITUATION FOR SEG AND I WANT TO APOLOGIZE.

  • What is wrong with Society said,

    This is what is wrong with our society. They mess up and break a rule that is wrong, yet we think they should be forgiven. I hate it for the Dudley players, I swear I do, but rules are rules. Dudley coaches had a big mishap and it cost them their playoff run. Yes Dudley is good and yes they deserve to be there, but they broke the rule and they are now paying the price. It the NCHSAA lets them in the playoffs because of a mistake then they have to now let everyone have a free-pass on the rule. Yes the rule is strict and the punishment DOES SUCK, but a rule is a rule. When you break a rule even if it is a mistake you have to pay the price. In the real world when you make a mistake and own up to it, guess what it sometimes cost you your job. It sucks but rules are rules and unfortunately once rules and punishments are set there shouldn’t be a way around them. The appeal process shouldn’t even be allowed. What they did was wrong and it was pretty clear on what the punishment was. I am sick of hearing about how they shouldn’t punish the players. Unfortunately, the coach messed up and his team is playing the price. Coaches have to be on their A game that’s what makes them the coach, when they mess up in the game it sometimes cost the team a win. I respect the coach for owning up to his mistake.

    If we continue to give free passes our society will continue to think stuff should be given to them and we all should be given second chances. That is whats wrong with us now too many second chances, too much stuff being given.

  • Andy Durham said,

    That is one of the problems that you have to look at and examine when you study the system..

    The kids are punished for the mistakes of the adults…

    The kids did what they were told to do and it is sort of like the old routine where one guy messes up and everyone has to run, but you have to do your checks and balances and see what kind of lesson is really being taught…

    You want do the right thing by the kids while you have a chance to get it right and who knows, maybe you can help to be more prepared for a problem such as this in the future…

    It has always been tough in cases where someone was locked up for murder and then they were let out of jail 25-30 years later when it was determined that they did not commit the crime…

    The kids did not commit the crime here and those in authority have been given the chance to make this right somehow before it is too late…

    The real problem comes up with if you bring Dudley back in now, how do you adjust the playoff system for 2014….Just some thoughts and just asking around…

  • Gomer said,

    HS FB FAN

    Are you sure about that?

  • Andy Durham said,

    If I have been reading this right this week, Southeast reported and then Dudley self-reported….

    IF Dudley would have self-reported on Friday night or on Saturday before the brackets were complete, they would still be in the playoffs at (9-1) and the #2 Seed from the Metro…

    Just by what I have read….

  • street said,

    If Dudley was using a player who falsified his address all year while living out of district, I would say throw the book at them, but this was so miniscule. Lou Holtz always said that if you do something that gives you an unfair competitive advantage that will affect the outcome, then that is wrong. What Dudley did was so meaningless. The kid only played 2 plays after a 29 pt. win with only a couple of seconds left. The JV season was over. I would und4erstand if this were a regular season game with JV and Varsity games left, but this was the end of the season for the JV’s.
    The punishment at this time should not be expulsion from the playoffs, but not let the kids play for the first game, or suspend the head coach for the first half. But the recommended punishment would be Draconian, considering there were only 2 play involved.

  • Poor Coaching said,

    Unbelievable that any coach is using 4 juniors on JV! That is totally unacceptable and I don’t feel any sympathy for Dudley Coaches.

  • Fan of all said,

    Andy, you are right about your last statement. My problem with everyone is why is OUR SOCIETY so quick to condemn without any grace. We punish the teenagers for not being obedient, for being out of order, for not working toward goals and being lazy…Here is a group that wasn’t trying to get over, being obedient to what they are told, goal oriented, working hard even before and after practices on their own, on the weekends too…and we just want to put them in a hole and move forward. Yes, we all have to abide by rules, but there is PJC (Prayer for judgement) from judges all of the time. If we didn’t have grace extended towards us with all that we have done…where would we be? It doesn’t hurt to make exceptions to the rule.

  • witness said,

    Andy you are correct. Southeast reported it first then Dudley self reported it. Dudley did not have 4 juniors on junior varsity. it was four jv players that got moved up. 1 was a junior who didn’t play football the year before

  • @ street said,

    @ Street

    What are you talking about? No one is falsifying addresses. This situations is about jv players dressing for both nights which is not illegal its about the junior who dressed both nights.

  • Big Joe said,

    4 Juniors on JV! You have got to be kidding me…

    Andy, COME ON!!! I saw Dudley’s JV play and at the time thought they looked “developed” beyond their age. Now I know. No wonder they have confidence and a competitive edge. They’ve been beating up all the younger players! Someone needs to make sure this statement about 4 Juniors is accurate. If it is, Poor Coaching is correct, totally unacceptable.

  • Big Joe said,

    OK Hopefully Witness is correct…

  • Andy Durham said,

    Appeal Denied…

    Raleigh News and Observer

    Winston-Salem Journal

  • Pirate Pride said,

    @ Witness,

    You are incorrect sir, Dudley had multiple juniors playing on there JV team. They all dressed for each Varsity game (at least in conference), and at least one of them played in 2 games weekly. I guarntee you Dudley will be forced to forfiet more than just one game when this investigation is complete.

    This is why Dudley will not pursue any further legal action. Facts!!!

  • NWGHS fan said,

    So, what happens if next year, another school does the same thing, but the player played 15 plays instead of 2? Or, if it was a 10 point lead, or a 1 point lead, instead of 29?

    What if it was discovered that a player was in fact academically ineligible for the entire season, and that his transcript had been (honestly) misread by the school authorities?

    The points are that (1) there are lots of examples, especially in sports, where the kids pay the price of the mistakes of adults. (2) where does one draw the line, when a clearly defined rule is broken, as to when to make or not make an exception.

    I truly feel for the Dudley kids. It’s a very difficult situation.

  • joseph arey said,

    Always best to give people the benefit of the doubt, but quicker action by Dudley and everything would have been fine. There was no need for Dudley to discuss the matter, as the tie lapse might indicate. A quick e-mail Friday night, and it’s a #2 seed with a 9-1 record instead of being spectators.
    Just my opinion.

  • Just saying said,

    A problem that no one wants to address is the academys. Someone earlier said the academys are there to help kids prepare for college. I am sure that most of the time that is the case. But most people know that this is being used to get good athletes also. There are other schools in Guilford County that are playing 9th and 10th graders on varsity because of low numbers. But some schools can afford to play juniors on JV. If its about preparing for college that is great but play at your home school in sports.

  • HUDDLE said,

    Huddle software should use this as their new marketing strategy. “If you want to see if teams are cheating by our software” Advertisement says: Dudley 4-A State Champs- take a look at the great film that our software provides also look at the Juniors that played in every JV game and then were called up to play Varsity on Friday nights. Oh it looks like they did this every conference game. But wait Coach from Dudley said I thought JV season was over after Southeast game, well what happened to the previous 4 conference games that you did it in. I was not going to report it until I got caught I promise (HAHAH). Everybody hates Southeast but Dudley look with in your own walls. Somebody said where there is smoke their is Fire and there is a lot of Fire in Panther Nation.

  • DudDad said,

    In bits and pieces, everybody’s correct, now be proud of yourselves! We broke a rule and we got punished. Speeding is against the law, but you don’t lose your driving privileges for doing 50 in a 45 mile per hour zone! This was suppose to be a down year for us and we had a great year! All this talk about “JV looking developed,” my son starts on the Varsity squad as a true Sophomore. We’ll be back next year better than ever! Good luck to your respective programs.

  • Just Curious said,

    DudDad,

    Do you mind me asking how old your son is and when his birthday is?

  • Vegas Mike said,

    Everybody here knows I watch a lot of HS sports and have been for 40 years. With that said, I was on my way home from work Thursday night of the SE/Dudley JV game, stopped in and immediately thought to myself..”Dang these JV kids from Dudley look big”. It takes quite a bit to impress me but something didn’t smell right. Hate it for everyone involved. As always, good luck to all teams involved.

    Vegas Mike

    P.S. By big, I meant developed.

  • DudDad said,

    @Just Curious, just turned 15!

  • Gutso said,

    Vegas Mike

    Get lost! Dudley players and coaches work hard and smart! The enthusiastic error has cost them but on the real, Dudley has dominated for two years straight on the field where it counts most!

  • Just Curious said,

    Thanks DudDad! That’s darned good as looks like he actually should be in 9th grade instead of 10th. Congrats on his season and sorry for everything that happened to those kids, especially seniors.

  • DuDDad said,

    @just Curious, by todays cut off he would be a freshman!

  • Elvis said,

    Just out of curiosity, why was SEG looking for something of that nature after getting beat 50-21 and was leading 21-6? Oh! Lets see! The kid who played 40 seconds from the JV stopped there comeback from happening!True athletes do not want to win that way through some political situations. NO WAY!!!!